» August 17, 2007 in
I thought after posting The Thirty Day Waste Of Time that they would be proving my "assumptions" wrong and maybe surprising me but they have been more predictable than the Kentucky weather.Their market research was hocus pocus, now their implementation is lame and parasitic.
If I may quote myself:
"parasite seo" (which is what it's called when you use another site to rank your affiliate content) is certainly not the least bit useful for anybody that wants to make money online for more than 30 days.
And sure enough, they have people trying to rank their content on the back of tumblr.com (plus others) and boasting this is a success. For example, look at their results: I Got Ranked - Offical Thread
Ranking in the search engines with parasite seo is no secret or "world's first" and the sad thing is, if you read the entire thread not a single person in the challenge actually ranks for their search term, Tumblr ranks for every one of their terms. Tumblr is the real winner here!
But You Are Just Jealous You Didn't Think of It
"Unheard of?" LOL. For the 30dc sheep, parasite seo is very old. I've even tested parasite seo once upon a time using this very domain. Some people even rank for HIGHLY competitive terms using parasite seo (like some currently do for "buy viagra" (a flickr account ranks #3 at the moment)), however it isn't a sustainable business model.
Tumblr is worth anything? Lol again. They "discovered it?"
We set up our team blog on tumblr before they 30dc had even started because it was quick easy and expendable not because it was an asset.
But We Still Rank, So Shove it 45n5
Wake UP! You are correct, you do rank. Out off all the people that are ranking on the back of tumblr in the thread above, only one single person has reported a sale so far, and it wasn't even on a tumblr blog. Try looking through the HYPE and using some REASON.
I reckon their ability to rank for nonsense terms with somebody else's site is top notch but their market research is showing to be a bit flawed? One sale with all of those people ranking top 10? Give me a break.
Do What They Do, Not What They Say
I don't mind their style, I don't like their content. However there is no doubt they've been around the block.
Here are some good takeaways from the Thirty Day Challenge so far for me, and you can take these to the bank!
1. enable your customers to promote your idea themselves by facilitating the conversation between them - Teaching your community how to use stumbleupon, digg, rate videos, make videos, and the like is great marketing
2. Start your own Tumblr! The host of the parasite is the real winner. I think the thirty day challenge people should have had all the contestants host their content on the thirtydaychallenge domain. I'm sure they would have had just as much success ranking the parasites and would have REALLY built that domain into a powerhouse.
3. Offer tons for free but also offer an upsell. Immediate Edge is their $147 upsell that I've seen mentioned by more than a few people considering joining. People can't buy what you don't sell is a post I've been meaning to write for a long time.
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John says on August 17, 2007
It's funny I see you post this commentary about your personal opinion about TDC and a few posts earlier you show people how to create worthless SPAM sites (more like MFA - Made for Adsense sites) that litter the 'Net and provide no useful content. If that's the way you choose to be an Internet Marketer, fine. It's obvious you don't fit or belong in a group like the TDC.
45n5 () says on August 17, 2007:
why not provide a link john? certainly you can't be talking about this post from a few days where I promote making quality content sites as the best way to make a living online:Title:
Build Websites Like Search Engine Traffic Did Not Exist
Url: www.45n5.com/permalink/build-websites-like-search-engine-traffic-did-not-.html
Why not address the content of my opinions above? They have pages and pages of people with top ten rankings in google and only one sale to show for it?
"It's obvious you don't fit or belong in a group like the TDC."
That is very true ;-)
Garrett says on August 17, 2007
Hey Mark,
I understand what you are trying to say, but you had to have known going in that we were going to use "parasite" techniques, as it's sometimes called.
I only call you on 2 points here:
1. The 30 day challenge is designed to make people $10 in under 30 days, for free. This is day 17, I wouldn't hail fire and judgment just yet. I don't feel they have mislead anybody thus far and I have been into internet marketing for 6 years now.
2. Some call is "parasite", I call it social networking. Like going to a business or social convention, you go to where the people are. If google prefers tumblr and netscape to our sites, it's better to acknowledge that and go with the flow. Never forgetting of course, that you can more successfully open a site in a niche where you already have a presence (which is where I believe they are going, eventually).
As an aside, I am also testing this process with a hosted worpdress blog. I simply had the tumblr subscribe to it's rss feed. This technique is working very well. Tumblr hit the front page in an hour and my wordpress is ranked 13 (not bad in this particular niche).
I enjoy reading your blog, but why not to a special 30DC September 1st? That way no one can tell you you're jumping to conclusions or don't understand what Ed and Dan are doing.
-Garrett
Garrett says on August 17, 2007
Ugh... an 'edit' function on the blog would be nice to (do I need to register?)
45n5 () says on August 17, 2007:
@garrett - no I don't allow editing of comments, not even logged in ;-) sorry I'll answer your other post in a sec.
45n5 () says on August 17, 2007:
Parasite seo isn't my term, many people use the word.Also, many people consider the practice spamming.
Plus the techniques and terminology are not new:
http://www.wolf-howl.com/seo/the-dark-side-of-social-media-organization/
http://www.seomoz.org/article/social-media-marketing-tactics
http://www.seomoz.org/blog/social-media-marketing-eh-lets-see-whats-in-our-bag-o-goodies
This post wasn't all bad and I think people are really missing the point of the post if they don't read and reread the part Do What They Do, Not What They Say
Garrett says on August 17, 2007
For the record, I never said it was your term. I was aware of it.
An ad page is spam. Rehashed content that can already be found on the front page is spam.
Great content, whether you host it or not is great content. That's what I'm serving, but I do understand that the ease of entry here (tumblr, squidoo, etc) means that there will be plenty of spammers.
But what can you do... I already saw tumblr smack down a competing "blog" that was nothing but a sales letter.
Like you said, build websites for people, not search engines.
-Garrett
45n5 () says on August 17, 2007:
no need to take it to the "record" garrett ;-) just shooting the breeze.good content is good content is correct.
but: certainly i wasn't the only one that watched the video of them showing "dozens and dozens and dozens" of people making the top ten on google, them patting themselves on the back and laughing at the doubters, and then saying they were unsure if they had even gotten one sale? nobody else found that slightly odd? just saying it out loud.
I'm sure some sales will roll in by the end of the month no doubt, cats catch a mouse sometimes too.
Also, I'll say it again, the second part of my post above is golden, and I openly admit I learned some of the stuff from them, i already have a project on the burner that I'm very excited about from following what they do not what they say.
Garrett says on August 17, 2007
Actually, I didn't find it odd. Most of these folks don't even know how to sell properly. Seeing as it's the first day these blogs have really been up, I would expect to see some sales coming in for people over the next few days.
(I have to admit, the sites I have seen look more like sales sites than tumblr blogs. Bad sales sites. I don't think a lot of people want to put the time into creating real content. So it wouldn't surprise me if we see a lot of bans and policed tumblrs in the next week or so.)
I look forward to this golden project of yours! I'm sure you blog about it when the time comes. Sounds community oriented.
-Garrett
Vlad () says on August 17, 2007:
I have stayed out of this, but I have to admit I do not understand how TDC will help anyone make $10.You got ranked???? Big deal! Will Google pay me $10 for occupying a place on the first page of the search results?
I am glad I did no join the challenge. TO be honest Mark I am surprised you did. I thin I may consider if a challenge was to in crease my monthly earnings by $1000- now that would be a challenge. $10 in 30days? If these guys have family their children will go hungry, and so will they.
Garrett says on August 17, 2007
"You got ranked???? Big deal! Will Google pay me $10 for occupying a place on the first page of the search results?"
That's exactly what Ed said.
Yes, a lot of people are excited as, for many of them, it's their first time being ranked on any search engine, let alone the front page of Google. But, as you have noted... not like you earn anything for getting ranked on Google.
The phase of the challenge is about testing the waters, not making money necessarily. That, apparently, is Day 20's Secret Sauce as they put it.
Just an aside, we may have our first sale now with her blog only having 91 visitors.
http://www.thirtydaychallenge.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2681
This isn't a business (obviously) but I am very excited that people are getting out their and networking. It could really motivate them to go to the next level in marketing (whatever that is for them).
At any rate, cheer the newbies on! People making money online with good content is exactly what the web economy is made of. I just hope that more contributors come out of 30DC than spammers (too early to tell on that).
Thanks for your input Vlad! (I really do enjoy talking about stuff like this, so please don't read my remarks as frustrated or angry! Text is not always the clearest communicator of emotion)
45n5 () says on August 18, 2007:
"I am glad I did no join the challenge. TO be honest Mark I am surprised you did"@vlad - I follow what's happening in the make money online world, the 30dc was happening an seemed up and up, so i followed it, and also was honest when i thought it turned lame. Just like I'm following the next internet millionaire now, because that's hot in this part of the internet. Give me credit for keeping it honest ;-)
@garrett - "I really do enjoy talking about stuff like this, so please don't read my remarks as frustrated or angry!"
I enjoy talking about it also ;-) Look at this blog.
"At any rate, cheer the newbies on! People making money online with good content is exactly what the web economy is made of."
Sorry but cheering newbies on to go walk over a cliff isn't my cup of tea.
Even though you say the contest is about quality content 99% of the contest to date has been about parasite seo, finding arbitrage opportunities in the search engines, questionably using web 2.0 sites, etc.
NOW they are talking about using these thing responsibly, it was a minor mention if any before.
These are certainly not things to cheer. You say it yourself above ( "I have to admit, the sites I have seen look more like sales sites than tumblr blogs. Bad sales sites.")
These people are supposedly brand new, they didn't learn the stuff from watching oprah, the got it from the challenge teachings.
But mark, they are brand new, the stuff is good to learn. NOT.
If they are brand new why not try teaching them how about h1 tags, xhtml, how to buy a domain, dns settings, how to upload files to a host, how to get a link ethically, what makes great content, how to contact other sites in your niche, yadayadayada
that would be worth cheering on.
but I'm sure all that is coming NEXT, I bet it is, not only do they read this blog, I'm not the only one saying these things.... but should we just ignore the garbage they've been teaching for the past 20-30 days?
And still haven't seen a single person rank in the search engines, TUMBLR ranks for all those words.
Life Conqueror says on August 18, 2007
I haven't made any money and I haven't ranked in Google yet, but I plan to stick it out with the 30 Day Challenge until the bitter end. I'm doing a few other blog projects so this isn't my only strategy to earn money online.
With regards to the Immediate Edge upsell, they've made it an effort to let people know they aren't trying to upsell, but at the same time they are attracting attention to it (sort of a reverse psychology, intentional or not). I personally won't shell out $147 for a membership. I'm even reluctant to purchase another domain!
Maybe it's because I've seen hundreds of sales letters and email opt-ins. Maybe it's because I've seen product after product selling to "only 50 customers, with 45 sold already" or having a "great deal" that's "only going on until
Even though the IM community can be great, I'm always expecting an upsell when people give free information or have a newsletter. I hate to say it, but I think being an internet marketer (at least with respect to affiliate marketing and info products) is a lot like being a stereotypical car salesman.
45n5 () says on August 18, 2007:
"they've made it an effort to let people know they aren't trying to upsell, but at the same time they are attracting attention to it"except they force you to login to get the training and have their logo on that page? They also are always mentioning it in the training. I think they are making the upsell quite obvious.
I completely understand where you are coming from about the car salesman, however I think there are plenty of people out there providing great info without a long sales page.
Life Conqueror says on August 18, 2007
I was referring to when they explicitly mention Immediate Edge in a video or podcast and say, "Don't mind it, don't sign up for it," but I know what you mean, although I haven't heard them explicitly saying "While you're at it, register here," there are many references to Immediate Edge all over the place. Even I checked out the sales letter just to see what it was about.
I would be surprised if the incredible popularity of this year's 30DC didn't affect Immediate Edge membership by September. :P
45n5 () says on August 18, 2007:
I understand now, I see the "reverse psychology" or what not. but I think it's very obvious they say their "day job" is immediate edge.joe says on August 18, 2007
There techniques are great, and I win, not tumblr, cause i just ranked 5th for my keyword, with my domain, with thier techniques. So thier techniques are effective. O, and by the way its with your 19pages format mark, so thanks for that! But i agree, cant make any money just for being ranked, but thats why they explain we need to find affiliates! Does feel good to get ranked tho.
45n5 () says on August 18, 2007:
no problem on the 19pages ;-) and congrats on the rankalthough I'm not too sure it is with their techniques since they haven't mentioned anything about ranking your own domain.
I see you ranking #1 at the moment for your keyword phrase, and your own domain, very nice.
testaccount () says on August 18, 2007:
Hey joe, great that you use 19pages. I would however, upgrade to the latest version (1.5.1), apparently you have 1.4 now.good luck with it!
Garrett says on August 18, 2007
"If they are brand new why not try teaching them how about h1 tags, xhtml, how to buy a domain, dns settings, how to upload files to a host, how to get a link ethically, what makes great content, how to contact other sites in your niche, yadayadayada
that would be worth cheering on." -Mark
Those things aren't REALLY Marketing (although I implement all that and more on Tech-Bites) though, and that's part of the issue.
My Dad, for instance, is doing the challenge as well and is totally computer illiterate. I've been trying to get him to use Worpress for months (with plenty of ease-ability plugins) and it's just not clicking.
No matter how you slice it, he's ranked front page on google, with a blog that is easy for him to update, without the technical hurdles normally associated with blogging, without spending any money.
Call me an optimist, but I can't help but see the bright side of this. On day thirty, if everyone is banned, has a bad rapport with Google, and has only $10 to show for it all, I'll admit that the endeavor was foolish. But my Dad is making more headway now, using quality content, than he ever has before.
Another point of interest, I think, is the nature of the social web. If it doesn't like you, it will spit you back out. So, the spammers and shameless quick-sellers won't make it for long.
Maybe he's trying to make up for the lack of emphasis before, but I just read this while writing this comment:
"Make your content EXCELLENT, Make it USEFUL - If it’s salesey you will get banned and I’ll be the first one clapping my hands with joy when it happens to you.
This is about creating a REAL, SUSTAINABLE, ECOLOGICAL and ETHICAL business.
Full Stop.
There are no shortcuts - none.
Tumblr is not the holy grail - it’s a great site that allows us to publish wonderful, useful content that serves the person that arrive on that page looking for obscure topics. If you dont do this - I hope they kick you to the curb."
We'll see how it all pans out, but I, for one, am doing exactly that: serving the highest quality content I can muster. But then, we aren't really talking about me, are we? :)
-Garrett
45n5 () says on August 18, 2007:
@garrett - how to attract real links, what is great content, how to upload files, is as much marketing as I know of. it's called the fundamentals which these people aren't learning, only hat tricks.
your quote from ed was dated after this post.
also, in case you haven't seen, tumblr has begun banning 30dc blogs, go back up NOW!
http://www.45n5.com/permalink/tumblr-starts-deleting-thirty-day-challenge-conten.html
Garrett says on August 18, 2007
I was just coming back here to mention that.
I must say, my respect for Tumblr has grown considerably! Refreshing to say the least.
But this is a good case and point. I was half-expecting this reaction from Tumblr with all the bad blogs that went up. People need to learn that good content is defined by the web, not by what they consider it to be. (although I would fault tumblr for being so trigger-happy... but on the whole, it's totally understandable).
It will be very interesting to see where things go from here.
-Garrett
EyesOpen says on August 18, 2007
It's not just the poor content blogs that have been banned from Tumblr. If you read the bewildered postings from newbies on the TDC forum you will see that even people who created what would normally be considered acceptable content have been banned. This is because posting one article whose only true purpose is to direct people to an affiliate sale (which, despite what Ed Dale and company say to the contrary, is exactly how the TDC is designed) contravenes the spirit and terms of reference of Tumblr.
In my opinion, Tumblr is well within their rights to ban those users or suspend their sites. And as someone mentioned above, I have increased respect for Tumblr because of their quick and decisive action.
Having said that, I would like to defend Ed Dale on two points:
1) My impression is that Ed Dale loves to teach as much as he loves to make money. He really does provide a lot of good tools, training and advice for free. Unfortunately, in this year's TDC the Tumblr technique (and this holds whether the sneaky sales letters are posted on tumblr blogs or some other blogging platform) has backfired big time. Ed Dale and company have egg on their face and are back-pedalling like crazy.
2) I don’t think that he overly markets The Immediate Edge or his other upsells during the TDC. Quite the contrary. He hardly ever mentions them.
I've had some other online dealings with Ed Dale and have concluded that although he is full of hype, charming as hell, long-winded and a master marketer, he is also a man of his word.
Once you are on one of his email lists, he doesn't overly promote stuff and he does provide lots of useful stuff. And if you want off the list, its easy to unsubscribe and you never hear from him again. Also he stands behind his word.
I registered for an expensive upsell course that promised "no questions asked refund if you are not happy". After three classes I was not happy with the course and wrote to Ed for a refund. He processed the refund immediately (same day), no questions asked and sent me a nice note. So I do think he is a man of his word.
45n5 () says on August 18, 2007:
@EyesOpen - I've mentioned before that I don't have a single problem with ed, dan, or any other people. I don't even mind the long winded tutorials. Ed seems like a real nice guy.My problem has always been with the content.
We are of a similar opinion I think.
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